Tag: Flirting

Online Dating Update

HeligKo
Dangers Of Online Dating

I changed my profile completely. As I said I would, I used some of the women’s profiles as archetypes for mine. This has been an excercise in reverse engineering the technology, and then extracting social cues from the women’s profiles that I thought I would like to attract. The end result is an honest, but engineered profile. It also does a fair share of social engineering to get desired results.

Interests

I added a lot of single words to the interests section to make sure that I get hits based on that. Stupid me had that relatively short, thinking that if I covered it below in then I didn’t need to there, but that area is like meta-data to POF. You need it to be there, so you are presented more often to women. I didn’t put anything in there to just get hits, but I put a lot of things in there I wouldn’t have thought to add before. I put things in there that everyone has an interest in, like music and movies. I put specific things, and the generic counterpart so I could catch people who had one or the other in their. So you have float trips, canoeing, and kayaking in there.

About Me

So the about me is the meat of this system. This is where you say whatever it is you want people to know. There is a lot of space, but it is limited. I used it all. Using it all gives the impression that I took some time to do this. It tells the people reading it that I am not wasting their time, and that connection can carry into the first few conversations. I give details and inject some humor as I go. I rewrote each piece a couple of times until when I read it, I could hear my own voice saying the words. I am selling myself, not some image of me that they won’t see when we meet. That is something I learned in dealing with Sarah. I was not surprised in any way by her. She sold me what she was in looks and interactions.

Disclaimer/Introduction

Most women have a disclaimer in their profile. Telling you what they don’t want. I find this very off-putting, so I twisted the idea into an introduction. It basically says that I am not playing the game by the rules. I will not send out 100s of emails without responses. I will write women who catch my eye, but if I catch yours, then you should send me a thoughtful messages that shows you read what I wrote. I also tell them if they do that I will respond, even if it is to inform them I am not interested or we are not a good match.

Kids Come First

Again the way women write this piece, though it exists in all profiles, is a put off. I let them know that I am a busy involved dad with some real examples of how. Kids are a great place to interject humor. I hint at a peaceful relationship with the kids mom. I don’t say the kids come first and if you can’t handle that kiss off. I think any woman that reads a section describing my activities with my kids who can’t come to that conclusion on her own is too stupid for me to deal with for long. I can filter these women out pretty quick.

Active Lifestyle

Everyone likes to think they are active. I skip past the active women who only say they go to the gym, unless they look like they are about ready to compete in a figure or fitness competition. I do this because I know they are at the gym five times a week to meet men. Once they have one hooked, they will kick the habit and down goes the figure fast. I list what I do to have an active lifestyle. The sports I play. The activities I do. I inject a lot of personality humor into this section. Its a lifestyle born of disciplines, and I don’t want to focus on the disciplines. They aren’t fun and are evident to anyone smart enough to keep my attention.

The Career

Women write a lot about their jobs. I don’t really care about her job. I do, but only once I get to know her. Its not a selling point. I only care that she has a job to take care of herself, because this man has four kids to care for. She cares about my job. They all do. There needs to be a hint that you are secure and stable in that job to get any hits. I give some hints at what my work life is like and what I do. I am not too specific, but I paint a picture of the job and environment I work in.

Intimacy

Women always have something about hugging and cuddling. I wrote a section that covers my emotional disposition and thought process, but only little glimpses. This is something they need to discover, but they need a teaser. I let them know that I am protective almost territorial about the people I love. Its a lot of strong and affirmative language reflecting my character.

Interests Revisited

I expound on my interests. I talk about my love of fires and the outdoors. I paint a picture of their being room there for someone without making it sound like someone is missing. I talk about the different volunteer activities I have done. I have done a lot, so there is some stuff there for everyone. I explain some of my musical tastes and add a little humor to this section. I don’t talk about movies and TV. Who really cares. Yes there some I love and hate, but I don’t plan on sitting around watching movies or TV with anyone very often. I did that with the STBEW, and that relationship sucked. I talk about my love of reading and writing. I talk about my love of art, and make some cracks about how little I know about art. I talk about doing photography.

Relationship Status

This is a head them off at the pass section. Women rarely have it, but they do care. Especially since I am not divorced yet. Its simple and clear. Divorce is coming, and we get along well enough to deal with kid issues without fighting.

The Close

I say something that dares them to pass me by. No well wishes. No passive letter closes. Its the you should know me, and choosing not to is a bad idea.

First Date

I put some creative things I would actually like to do that are not the same stupid things everyone else puts in there about drinks, coffee, dinner, or god forbid a movie.

Results

I didn’t break it up into sections. I just had paragraphs follow this format, and in this order. The order was something I noticed as I read women’s profiles. I have had good results. My response rate is at about 30% when I send out messages, and I don’t send out a lot of messages. I have 3-5 women I am communicating with right now, and two that are likely to escalate into a date. I have been contacted by numerous women, and as I said in my intro, I do respond if they say more than “Hi, wanna chat?” The other thing I have noticed through this process is that I have very little patience for someone who has not taken the time to fill out their profile with something that gives me at least a little hint of who I am dealing with. Women with the punch lists of don’ts are bitches, guaranteed. Women with the punch lists of wants are never going to be satisfied. Women who say they don’t want players and assholes are off the list, because the only guys they are going to respond to are players and assholes. I don’t have a problem with those guys, and the women get what they deserve, when this is the type of guy they choose. I mostly look at the women who say something about themselves and what they like to do, and who have taken some time to choose pictures that show what they look like and some personality. When meeting a woman, if they don’t look like their pictures I will walk away. That is lying of the first order, and its not acceptable to bait me in with 10 year old pictures that don’t look at all like you. I have seen some of this with friends, so far the women I have met have not done this. I have had no surprises. I know that with time I will meet a few truly crazies.

I am surprised to say the least. This change has been dramatic to the whole online dating experience. None of it really fits what POF lists as good profiles or what many web gurus will tell you. I am liked by women in the physical world. They like my personality and how I carry myself. I needed to bring some of that into the profile. I am selling me, not some everyman for women to drool over. In the same way that I would walk if I find she misrepresented herself, I expect that the type of woman I want will walk if I do. I spend less time with the stupid site, and get better results. I have made a few international pen pals along the way as well. All in all, I think my assessment is changing of online dating.

Ten-Foured,

JeD

Online Dating Sucks

HeligKo
Self portrait - Blow in her face and she'll follow you anywhere.

I don’t have the time or the desire to head out to some place to pick up women. I thought the online dating would be a good way to cut that part out, and get to know someone better. Well it sucks. I can go to most public places and with just a look get a woman’s attention. From there its easy to approach her and talk. Many times she will approach me first. Its just not that hard to meet new women. It doesn’t happen every time, but most nights out, I get a woman’s phone number and she returns the call. The problem is the quality of the woman that I meet out is questionable, or at least her motives are based on how we met each other.

My thoughts were that with online dating, I would meet women who were interested in more. That reading their profile, I could have a decent opening message and expect a reply from most, even if it turns out they aren’t that interested. I figured it would be like real life for me, but better because we can talk about motives and desires. I have found that most women are demanding that they get the best the world has to offer. The only problem is they aren’t that good themselves. They think that they should have the most attractive man, with the best job, who has all the time in the world for them. Women who would have a good time with in the real world, won’t give me the time of day in the internet dating world. I am going to try some different tactics, but I doubt this goes anywhere. Women think that these sites are catalogs of men for them to choose from, and that they can have any one of them that they want. They don’t realize that most of the men have no interest in them. They don’t reach the mark, but they aren’t being rejected. They are doing the rejecting. The men still initiate most of the contacts. Most are ignored. I think many of these women would have better social skills if they took the time to respond to a few more of these men, if it is even to just reject them kindly. Most of these women rarely even look at the profiles of the men who send them message. They are rejecting them based upon the first picture they see. Crazy how shallow most of these women are, usually while accusing men of being shallow.

I am going to try to change my profile. I think I might have done something foolish. I have created a profile projecting what it is that I want to do with a woman, and thus have created a profile to attract men. I am going to basically create a profile that strongly resembles the ones I see from women. That talks about my position and stability. My abilities in the work force, and how independent that I am. I just won’t list my you better not be-s. That can be sorted out by me just fine without just pissing off some women with what they think is targeted at them. I think most of the women are projecting as well. They are righting what is important to them, not what they think will catch the man. Maybe I will get a higher quality of response. I will report back.

Ten-Foured,

JeD

What Is A Man To Do

HeligKo
London - Red Blue

The quandary is this, I love women. Every time I try to quit them, I make it a couple of weeks, and then I am thinking about them again. I like to touch, smell, and taste them. I like to talk to them. Women and men communicate differently. We all know this. The way a woman communicates with a man can be the best and the worst thing in the world. The flip side of this quandary is that as a man, there is not an equal playing ground anymore. There used to be a balance in relationships, but now women have most of the power. They can choose to do good or evil with it. This is why I don’t see another marriage in my future. Marriage is a very attractive thing to me. It is one of the few things I truly desired in life. Its not just what my wife is doing that has turned me against the idea of marriage, but what I see in the culture around us.

I have encountered in the last 6 months two women who are seeking husbands. One was actively doing it, and become way too clingy, and emotionally manipulative in the process. The final blow was her trying to use another man to make me jealous. I am in no position right now for any kind of real commitment, so this didn’t work. Another has accepted that the occasional encounter for dinner, a party, or just some sex is all I really have to offer right now. I know that she wants more, and she is using the sex to keep me around. I don’t mind, and she knows where I stand on things. She isn’t openly seeking a husband, but definitely wants something more. The other problem I have with these women is they aren’t really looking for someone to be a good husband. They want a Dad at their house when they have their kids. I am already a Dad to four kids. In the right circumstances, I might have it in me to be a father to more kids, but that isn’t on the plate right now.

The next problem I have is the women that are left that aren’t looking for these things are older women. I tend to be attracted to older women. Who am I kidding, I am attracted to attractive women. Age isn’t really a factor. Older women tend to be more predatory from what I have seen. They are better at playing the game, but they are also playing for different reasons. Some just want someone to hang out with, and enjoy some passionate times with them. Others are looking for status. This weekend, I did something I have never done. I went to a bar, and left with one of these women. I became really attracted to her as she told me bits of her story. I love stories. I was physically attracted to her as well. We kissed and talked for a couple of hours. It didn’t go any further. She was of course being elusive about her age. She said enough for me to figure out that she was more than ten years older than me. I was intoxicated by her. Who knows if she will accept my calls, or if anything comes of it. My only regret will be if she doesn’t call me, I won’t get to know her. Putting the cart before the horse can have that effect. She said enough that I want to hear the rest of her story. She had been married for 17 years to a man who died of skin cancer. She made it clear that she had never thought of a life without him, that she planned to be married forever. That man was a quite a bit older than her. I would guess that she is attracted to younger men now, because they won’t die on her. I don’t know if an older woman is in my future. I do know that some of the trappings of that is what hurt my marriage. I don’t want another mother in my life, but a woman like this is closer to my mother’s age than mine.

We live in interesting times. For the next 10 plus years, my focus will be raising my kids into adults. I don’t expect that I will keep many women around as they are pushed aside for my children a few too many times. I expect I will have lots of opportunity to explore the different types of women there are out there. I do need to find a couple I can trust to talk to, because that is something I valued from my wife when she listened. The problem was, I found she hardly ever listened.

So readers, as you can tell my whirlpool of emotions regarding women is going to change all the time. I don’t trust them. I want them. I need them. I can go my own way. Ultimately I think I will find one that will come to terms with all that I am feeling as my emotions level out on the subject. I have realized that society is not on my side, and women as a group are a disaster waiting to happen to most men, but that does not mean that the individual women is out to get me in every case. I will just have to wait until I meet one that we can come to the right terms with. If that never happens, then it will be with no regrets.

Ten-Foured,

JeD

Hoovering and Projecting

HeligKo
The Movie: Borderline Biennial / Abode of Chaos 09/09/09 - BLB-999-Abode-of-Chaos-23

I find that I am constantly struggling to understand what it is that she is up to. I have come to the conclusion that she is much more intentional in the things she does than I have ever given her credit for. I have also come to the conclusion that she is a much better actress than I would have given her credit for. Vox Day has pointed out on multiple occasions that just because women are more emotionally driven than men, does not mean that they are not extremely calculating and willing to wait for the “right moment.”

Hoovering

First lets define this. In the BPD survivor world this is a term for when a BP person tries to draw you back into their life. They do the things that they know make you feel good. It is all for show, and it only lasts as long as it has to. It is usually the same things that drew you to them to begin with. So my wife knows that little flirtatious touches draw me in. She has been touching my chest as she approaches, and resting a hand on the center of my back. As we sit at some event for our children she will brush her foot lightly against my leg. She stayed to watch me play soccer the other night. She also has asked more about my father recently than she did any other time in the last year. It is so tempting to be sucked in by these actions, but resisting them generally frustrates her, and I get to see her rage flare up against others, so I am reminded of what I no longer have to live with.

Projecting

This is another BP trait, and it is one that most BPs are extremely convincing at. They project their feelings, actions, emotions, and motives onto someone else, and seem to be able to get others to believe it. Sometimes even the person they are projecting these things onto. Just today she quickly got angry with my middle son over not seeing his grade card. She then got mad when his feelings were hurt that she never acknowledged him getting into the geography bee. It moved from him to my older son, because he defended me for throwing out my youngest daughter’s grade card after seeing that she had a nearly perfect first semester of second grade. She then turned things around as the boys left, and cornered me asking what all the hatred is all about from the boys, and what happened to make her deserve that. It makes me sad to watch. They are angry. Angry about her being angry all the time. Angry about her destroying our family. Angry most of all that she blames them for her anger, though she has been angry most of her life. I don’t know what she expects to gain from this. My suspicion is she will eventually discard the boys in the same way she did me. She will make it their fault, and I will have to put them back together after their mother is done. I only hope it happens sooner than later, so I have more time to put them back together before they have to enter the hard world out there on their own.

I may never know her drivers. I may never understand why she does what she does. I am not sure she knows or understands herself. I will have to deal with it, because like it or not, once there are kids involved marriage is forever in some form or other.

Ten-Foured,

JeD

A Ring, What?

HeligKo
My Ring >^_^

During the time just after Christmas, we were out shopping at a store that sold jewelry. She had taken to playfully rubbing her foot on my leg when she wanted to talk to me about something serious. It felt good, and initially I had thought that just maybe she was interested in trying to make things better. I was torn, because I knew she was very sexual, and good at using her sexual mores to get her way. I wasn’t fooled, but I was tempted.

My fears were confirmed, when she very flirtatiously brushed up against me, pressing her body against me, and said while looking at the rings, “So, If I decide to stay, do I get a new wedding ring.” I sighed. It was the safest thing to do. I was disgusted. It reminded me that she constantly complained about the ring that I spent almost two months salary to buy her when we got married. The same ring that she hadn’t worn most of our marriage. She wore other rings, but had stopped wearing those as well for almost two years.

This was a turning point for me. This is where all my efforts to lure her back stopped. I still wanted to reconcile, but I was not going to settle for anything less than her deciding that she wanted to rebuild our relationship from the ground up, because it was the right thing to do for our kids, and because the vows we took mattered. I was willing to work for the relationship, but not buy it, or gain some temporary reprieve, because she felt better.

This led to multiple talks, where after she expressed that she still didn’t feel in love me. My response was a very stable non-emotional, “Of course you don’t, and you won’t unless you decide to love me. You won’t feel in love unless you choose to love. We have been together too long for you to have that spontaneous romantic love you desire. It is going to take work to get back to a place where we can feel that.” Her response was something along the lines of “I don’t want to work on our relationship” or “I don’t want to love you.” She also told me things like “I have too much life to live, to continue living with you.”

These are some of the most hurtful things I have ever heard. I couldn’t believe them at first. I now use them as inspiration to remember that I don’t want what we had. I want to honor my vows, but I cannot do that if she isn’t willing to as well. I want to raise my children with their mother, but I cannot do that if she isn’t willing to as well. I want to be in love with the person I married, but I cannot do that if she is not willing to as well. Perhaps some of those are doable without her, but I am no longer willing to try. If she wants to go, then she can go. Its about my kids now.

She continued through this nebulous time while we lived together, to try to flirt to get her way. She also tried to use anger to get her way. She became increasingly agitated as neither route has the desired effect of control on me. I was breaking free of her bondage.

Ten-Foured,

JeD